On the role of women, as creatures of relationship, they can lead people to salvation as they helped expand the Church 2,000 years ago, or they can lead people to doom as Eve in the fall or as we see today fervent wokesters. Eve, under Adam's protection can resist the seduction of the tempter, if he is alert and without excuses.
A priest said years ago, wisely, I think, women civilize men. Chesterton said something similar, men will slay the dragon to defend their lady. family and hearth.
In partnership men and women can reflect the Trinity in the form of the family.
This guy sounds like work salvation. You're not under law, but under grace.No one will be declared righteous in the sight of God.To obedience to the law.
the New Testament: Philip's daughters (Acts 21:9), Priscilla (Acts 18:26; Rom. 16:3-5, etc.), Phoebe (Rom. 16:1-2), Junia (Rom. 16:7), possibly Chloe (1 Cor. All these women taught the gospel in the new testament.
The role of women is not determined by custom, uninformed speculation, or even church history. It is determined by the Word of God alone. And in studying the Word, it is essential to study deeply so that the conclusions drawn are consistent with the rest of the teachings of Scripture.
The conversation about the role of women, in this podcase, relies on an uninformed, surface reading of the Scriptures, taking situation-specific words and creating a generalization out of them. Every aspect of this debate, every relevant Scripture, has been thoroughly analyzed by serious Christian scholars, and the idea that women are somehow made to submit to their husbands, or are unable to take a leadership role, has been demolished. The speakers here fail to engage with the scholarly work that has been done by these committed Christians. That is the only level at which a discussion of this issue makes sense.
Perhaps what you believe remains a social custom in churches in ideologically backwater locations, where women are happy to remain passive and everyone knows that men are the ones that contribute money (often in the form of unscriptural tithing). So it's pay-to-play, nothing more. That some women find this to be a comfortable situation does not make it a Scriptural teaching. Many women have rejected the gospel because of the very things that you say in this podcast. Your words have consequences, and it is not good to take a cavalier attitude about that. I don’t fault the women.
Have either of you considered the story of Jael, and in particular Judges 5:24 and the implications of what took place and how it is described? Blessed is this woman among those (the other women) who dwell in their tents, because she took aggressive action. And of course there is Deborah, who judged (which at that time meant ruled) Israel. Eve is described as being deceived, but Adam sinned knowingly. That doesn't make women subject to deception - Eve had less, and second-hand information. The greater guilt is Adam's. So when the Bible says he will rule, it is a description of fallen, disobedient behavior, not an assignment of roles. It is the way the world will work, as a power-based system that opposes God. Otherwise, why would the one who sins deliberately be placed, by God, over an entire gender which - in your opinion - needs to be saved from deception? Furthermore, it is the seed of woman, not the seed of man that stands in enmity with Satan. Consider the deep implications of that.
Putting the Bible aside, you are obviously unfamiliar with the role of women during Covid, who told the truth and took risks, putting many men to shame. Where is their tendency to be deceived? I don't see it.
Has anyone here compared the English translation of critical passages regarding women to how they are written in Hebrew, or more significantly, in Greek? Are you aware of the misogynist changes that have been made, that remain in our English Bibles, that is evident to anyone who has done work in the original languages?
I have come to realize that men who hold the positions that you do live, first, by ego and then for whatever is left, by some truncated faith. Men who live by a patriarchal doctrine are unable to understand what it means to live by freedom, not by the law, in Christ. The tragedy is yours - you will never experience what it means to have a relationship that is a fully equal partnership. You will never know what you cannot experience.
But it is not my problem. I am not subject to your patriarchal system. Your church, and those that teach the same doctrines, have no authority over those who don't decide to join. And yet I stand in, walk in, and live in faith, as a servant of Jesus Christ. But I understand, now, why you declare that I am not a Christian because I don't go to church. It is a domineering attitude that believes everyone must be subject to your patriarchal system. But I am free in Christ.
You think you are going to face outrage from your readers, Hrvoje, and you pre-emptively dismiss their comments. This is not outrage, it is a correction. It is the same thing that I write in all my posts to you. You have gone off the track in so many ways. You endorse false teaching rather than studying. If you are not sound in your doctrine, study privately, not in public by promoting what is wrong as a method of trying to figure it out - which never seems to happen anyway.
You recite evangelical truisms, not realizing that many of those who genuinely live by faith in their lives now stand outside the Evangelical church because it has become corrupt, and propagates false teaching and a watered-down gospel. Open your eyes.
One of the listeners who has commented here has said this sounds like works salvation. And it is. Study Galatians. The Old Testament has no rule about the role of women. It applauds women who are strong, and who rule while men fail in their faith. This means you are introducing, or I should say parroting, a new rule, a formalism, about "roles" of women, rather than understanding that we are freed from those rules. These rules, if you study their origin in modern Evangelicalism, have their basis in pop psychology, not the Bible. Do the work - you will find that what I am saying is true. Grudem and Piper and the Baptists - it's all there. Study Grudem's theology and you will find that he is off track in significant, core, matters of biblical theology as well.
We walk in the freedom of the Spirit. That you fail to understand the full implications of this critical point of theology is extremely troubling. You rely on legal compliance with artificially imposed roles to uphold your faith. It is not possible. As a result, you announce that you are a Christian, then proceed to express beliefs that undermine genuine faith. You are busy worrying about what to do about the coming storm. There is only one answer - we trust in God. We remain in faith where he places and guides us and we follow His instructions, which will be made know to us.
On a continued theme, even this guest of yours recognizes the problems with supporting Israel. I have also posted comments about this. Yet you remain conflicted. I get the impression that you could see innocents of any population group being herded like cattle to their death, and you would be unable to discern good from evil. You could have been witness to the Holocaust, scratching your head about the meaning of it all. How is it that others can see? You are like 2 Timothy 3:7 - always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Yet, the Bible promises that understanding will be given to anyone who genuinely seeks it. So why are you unable to do that? The Bible has nothing sympathetic to say about those who are "driven and tossed by the wind." See James 1:5-6.
I am being harsh, not at a personal level, but because you don't seem to understand that what you say, what you promote, what you allow to be said influences others. You believe in the idea that your listeners can make up their minds. That is not Scriptural - to align yourself with false teaching and leave it to your listeners to make up their own minds. The believer is to stand for biblical truth. When we place our faith in Christ, we become bond-servants of His, we live by His rules, we give up many rights, and we walk in obedience following His judgment, not our own. That is what I want for you, not this continuous parade of false teaching and waffling in the face of evil. Yes, we are all responsible for what we do and believe, but we will also be held responsible for the effect we have on others, and to cause harm is a dangerous thing. Your church seems to present a package of doctrines to which you adhere. I would urge you to put it all aside and study the Bible for yourself, humbly and prayerfully. That is how I wish the best for you.
Important topics discussed.
On the role of women, as creatures of relationship, they can lead people to salvation as they helped expand the Church 2,000 years ago, or they can lead people to doom as Eve in the fall or as we see today fervent wokesters. Eve, under Adam's protection can resist the seduction of the tempter, if he is alert and without excuses.
A priest said years ago, wisely, I think, women civilize men. Chesterton said something similar, men will slay the dragon to defend their lady. family and hearth.
In partnership men and women can reflect the Trinity in the form of the family.
Awesome! More of this, please 🙏
This guy sounds like work salvation. You're not under law, but under grace.No one will be declared righteous in the sight of God.To obedience to the law.
the New Testament: Philip's daughters (Acts 21:9), Priscilla (Acts 18:26; Rom. 16:3-5, etc.), Phoebe (Rom. 16:1-2), Junia (Rom. 16:7), possibly Chloe (1 Cor. All these women taught the gospel in the new testament.
The role of women is not determined by custom, uninformed speculation, or even church history. It is determined by the Word of God alone. And in studying the Word, it is essential to study deeply so that the conclusions drawn are consistent with the rest of the teachings of Scripture.
The conversation about the role of women, in this podcase, relies on an uninformed, surface reading of the Scriptures, taking situation-specific words and creating a generalization out of them. Every aspect of this debate, every relevant Scripture, has been thoroughly analyzed by serious Christian scholars, and the idea that women are somehow made to submit to their husbands, or are unable to take a leadership role, has been demolished. The speakers here fail to engage with the scholarly work that has been done by these committed Christians. That is the only level at which a discussion of this issue makes sense.
Perhaps what you believe remains a social custom in churches in ideologically backwater locations, where women are happy to remain passive and everyone knows that men are the ones that contribute money (often in the form of unscriptural tithing). So it's pay-to-play, nothing more. That some women find this to be a comfortable situation does not make it a Scriptural teaching. Many women have rejected the gospel because of the very things that you say in this podcast. Your words have consequences, and it is not good to take a cavalier attitude about that. I don’t fault the women.
Have either of you considered the story of Jael, and in particular Judges 5:24 and the implications of what took place and how it is described? Blessed is this woman among those (the other women) who dwell in their tents, because she took aggressive action. And of course there is Deborah, who judged (which at that time meant ruled) Israel. Eve is described as being deceived, but Adam sinned knowingly. That doesn't make women subject to deception - Eve had less, and second-hand information. The greater guilt is Adam's. So when the Bible says he will rule, it is a description of fallen, disobedient behavior, not an assignment of roles. It is the way the world will work, as a power-based system that opposes God. Otherwise, why would the one who sins deliberately be placed, by God, over an entire gender which - in your opinion - needs to be saved from deception? Furthermore, it is the seed of woman, not the seed of man that stands in enmity with Satan. Consider the deep implications of that.
Putting the Bible aside, you are obviously unfamiliar with the role of women during Covid, who told the truth and took risks, putting many men to shame. Where is their tendency to be deceived? I don't see it.
Has anyone here compared the English translation of critical passages regarding women to how they are written in Hebrew, or more significantly, in Greek? Are you aware of the misogynist changes that have been made, that remain in our English Bibles, that is evident to anyone who has done work in the original languages?
I have come to realize that men who hold the positions that you do live, first, by ego and then for whatever is left, by some truncated faith. Men who live by a patriarchal doctrine are unable to understand what it means to live by freedom, not by the law, in Christ. The tragedy is yours - you will never experience what it means to have a relationship that is a fully equal partnership. You will never know what you cannot experience.
But it is not my problem. I am not subject to your patriarchal system. Your church, and those that teach the same doctrines, have no authority over those who don't decide to join. And yet I stand in, walk in, and live in faith, as a servant of Jesus Christ. But I understand, now, why you declare that I am not a Christian because I don't go to church. It is a domineering attitude that believes everyone must be subject to your patriarchal system. But I am free in Christ.
You think you are going to face outrage from your readers, Hrvoje, and you pre-emptively dismiss their comments. This is not outrage, it is a correction. It is the same thing that I write in all my posts to you. You have gone off the track in so many ways. You endorse false teaching rather than studying. If you are not sound in your doctrine, study privately, not in public by promoting what is wrong as a method of trying to figure it out - which never seems to happen anyway.
You recite evangelical truisms, not realizing that many of those who genuinely live by faith in their lives now stand outside the Evangelical church because it has become corrupt, and propagates false teaching and a watered-down gospel. Open your eyes.
One of the listeners who has commented here has said this sounds like works salvation. And it is. Study Galatians. The Old Testament has no rule about the role of women. It applauds women who are strong, and who rule while men fail in their faith. This means you are introducing, or I should say parroting, a new rule, a formalism, about "roles" of women, rather than understanding that we are freed from those rules. These rules, if you study their origin in modern Evangelicalism, have their basis in pop psychology, not the Bible. Do the work - you will find that what I am saying is true. Grudem and Piper and the Baptists - it's all there. Study Grudem's theology and you will find that he is off track in significant, core, matters of biblical theology as well.
We walk in the freedom of the Spirit. That you fail to understand the full implications of this critical point of theology is extremely troubling. You rely on legal compliance with artificially imposed roles to uphold your faith. It is not possible. As a result, you announce that you are a Christian, then proceed to express beliefs that undermine genuine faith. You are busy worrying about what to do about the coming storm. There is only one answer - we trust in God. We remain in faith where he places and guides us and we follow His instructions, which will be made know to us.
On a continued theme, even this guest of yours recognizes the problems with supporting Israel. I have also posted comments about this. Yet you remain conflicted. I get the impression that you could see innocents of any population group being herded like cattle to their death, and you would be unable to discern good from evil. You could have been witness to the Holocaust, scratching your head about the meaning of it all. How is it that others can see? You are like 2 Timothy 3:7 - always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Yet, the Bible promises that understanding will be given to anyone who genuinely seeks it. So why are you unable to do that? The Bible has nothing sympathetic to say about those who are "driven and tossed by the wind." See James 1:5-6.
I am being harsh, not at a personal level, but because you don't seem to understand that what you say, what you promote, what you allow to be said influences others. You believe in the idea that your listeners can make up their minds. That is not Scriptural - to align yourself with false teaching and leave it to your listeners to make up their own minds. The believer is to stand for biblical truth. When we place our faith in Christ, we become bond-servants of His, we live by His rules, we give up many rights, and we walk in obedience following His judgment, not our own. That is what I want for you, not this continuous parade of false teaching and waffling in the face of evil. Yes, we are all responsible for what we do and believe, but we will also be held responsible for the effect we have on others, and to cause harm is a dangerous thing. Your church seems to present a package of doctrines to which you adhere. I would urge you to put it all aside and study the Bible for yourself, humbly and prayerfully. That is how I wish the best for you.